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	<title>Comments on: Building Nations with the Cunning Use of Foreign Languages</title>
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	<link>http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/building-nations-with-the-cunning-use-of-foreign-languages/</link>
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		<title>By: Ramses</title>
		<link>http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/building-nations-with-the-cunning-use-of-foreign-languages/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Ramses</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/?p=134#comment-173</guid>
		<description>The Low Lands (or it&#039;s provinces) were seperated along the border of it&#039;s speakers. French speakers had their own provinces, Dutch speaker had their own and the German speakers. Later the German speaking provinces joined the German empire and in 1830 Belgium declared themself independent from the Netherlands (although the northern part remains Dutch speaking). 

Now, in Belgium there&#039;s Flanders (Dutch speaking), Wallonia (French speaking) and the Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft Belgiens (which never joined Germany and is actually a very small part of Belgium). In Belgium there&#039;s still a strong seperation between Dutch speaking and French speaking communities, marked by it&#039;s borders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Low Lands (or it&#8217;s provinces) were seperated along the border of it&#8217;s speakers. French speakers had their own provinces, Dutch speaker had their own and the German speakers. Later the German speaking provinces joined the German empire and in 1830 Belgium declared themself independent from the Netherlands (although the northern part remains Dutch speaking). </p>
<p>Now, in Belgium there&#8217;s Flanders (Dutch speaking), Wallonia (French speaking) and the Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft Belgiens (which never joined Germany and is actually a very small part of Belgium). In Belgium there&#8217;s still a strong seperation between Dutch speaking and French speaking communities, marked by it&#8217;s borders.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/building-nations-with-the-cunning-use-of-foreign-languages/#comment-170</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 05:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/?p=134#comment-170</guid>
		<description>Harris: Thank you for your comments and insight. It seems that you have done more reading about Yiddish than I. I never said that the Yiddish speakers were a defeated minority and I certainly hope that that is not why you put quotation marks around these two words. As for Yiddish not being like German, although I myself do not speak German I have been told by NUMEROUS people who do that they can understand most of what is said in Yiddish. Perhaps they were exaggerating. This link: www.unimelb.edu.au/HB/subjects/126-417.html shows a university class that teaches that German and Yiddish are quite similar. Not speaking either language myself, I&#039;m afraid that I can&#039;t confirm this. Perhaps you do and can?

Your comments about the Yiddish speakers being persecuted in Israel makes sense to me. In my research for this post I read that there were rumors of a bomb being placed at a meeting held in Yiddish. The rumors part seemed sketchy to me so I used the word &quot;sometimes&quot; just to be on the safe side. I was still a little doubtful. The line from the 2005 movie &quot;Munich&quot; that said, &quot;How do you think we got the land in the first place? By being nice?&quot; was ringing in my ears. Again, it&#039;s obvious that you&#039;ve read up on this subject. Thanks for sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harris: Thank you for your comments and insight. It seems that you have done more reading about Yiddish than I. I never said that the Yiddish speakers were a defeated minority and I certainly hope that that is not why you put quotation marks around these two words. As for Yiddish not being like German, although I myself do not speak German I have been told by NUMEROUS people who do that they can understand most of what is said in Yiddish. Perhaps they were exaggerating. This link: <a href="http://www.unimelb.edu.au/HB/subjects/126-417.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.unimelb.edu.au/HB/subjects/126-417.html</a> shows a university class that teaches that German and Yiddish are quite similar. Not speaking either language myself, I&#8217;m afraid that I can&#8217;t confirm this. Perhaps you do and can?</p>
<p>Your comments about the Yiddish speakers being persecuted in Israel makes sense to me. In my research for this post I read that there were rumors of a bomb being placed at a meeting held in Yiddish. The rumors part seemed sketchy to me so I used the word &#8220;sometimes&#8221; just to be on the safe side. I was still a little doubtful. The line from the 2005 movie &#8220;Munich&#8221; that said, &#8220;How do you think we got the land in the first place? By being nice?&#8221; was ringing in my ears. Again, it&#8217;s obvious that you&#8217;ve read up on this subject. Thanks for sharing.</p>
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		<title>By: harris e.</title>
		<link>http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/building-nations-with-the-cunning-use-of-foreign-languages/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>harris e.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 04:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/?p=134#comment-169</guid>
		<description>And as to the yiddish speakers of Israel &quot;sometimes being harrased&quot;: There are well-documented instances of hebrew partisans rioting in front of Yiddish organizations, Yiddish being banned from all forms of media, despite the fact that 25% of the country spoke the language, and Yiddish speakers being treated as 2nd class citizens. View &quot;Words on Fire&quot; by Dovid Katz for more information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And as to the yiddish speakers of Israel &#8220;sometimes being harrased&#8221;: There are well-documented instances of hebrew partisans rioting in front of Yiddish organizations, Yiddish being banned from all forms of media, despite the fact that 25% of the country spoke the language, and Yiddish speakers being treated as 2nd class citizens. View &#8220;Words on Fire&#8221; by Dovid Katz for more information.</p>
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		<title>By: harris e.</title>
		<link>http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/building-nations-with-the-cunning-use-of-foreign-languages/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>harris e.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 04:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/?p=134#comment-168</guid>
		<description>re: the yiddish comments.

First off, Yiddish is in no way a dialect of German; only about 70% of Yiddish words have their source in German, much lower than the say 90% mutual comprehensibility between danish and swedish. 

In addition, the Jews of eastern europe were not a &quot;defeated minority&quot;; they were a large minority and well-integrated into eastern european culture and society. Of course, the spectre of anti-semitism did hang over the Ashkenazi community (see chelminicki, the shoah). 

In reality, the primary reason that Hebrew was chosen to be the official language of Israel was the fact that all Jews knew it (or had basic knowledge of it), as opposed to the 1/3 of Jews who did not speak Yiddish. Another important factor is the fact that the Jews of mandate palestine (who were overwhelmingly from Eastern Europe) wanted to create a new Jew; ashekanzim (and by extension, their language) were seen as being weak, and more importatly, too religious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: the yiddish comments.</p>
<p>First off, Yiddish is in no way a dialect of German; only about 70% of Yiddish words have their source in German, much lower than the say 90% mutual comprehensibility between danish and swedish. </p>
<p>In addition, the Jews of eastern europe were not a &#8220;defeated minority&#8221;; they were a large minority and well-integrated into eastern european culture and society. Of course, the spectre of anti-semitism did hang over the Ashkenazi community (see chelminicki, the shoah). </p>
<p>In reality, the primary reason that Hebrew was chosen to be the official language of Israel was the fact that all Jews knew it (or had basic knowledge of it), as opposed to the 1/3 of Jews who did not speak Yiddish. Another important factor is the fact that the Jews of mandate palestine (who were overwhelmingly from Eastern Europe) wanted to create a new Jew; ashekanzim (and by extension, their language) were seen as being weak, and more importatly, too religious.</p>
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		<title>By: alexcase</title>
		<link>http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/building-nations-with-the-cunning-use-of-foreign-languages/#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator>alexcase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 01:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/?p=134#comment-164</guid>
		<description>&quot;Apparently Michael Wex was right because Yiddish didn’t end up becoming Israel’s language.&quot;

Could have been for other reasons though. 

Another interesting question is whether the history of Israel would have been different if they had chosen Yiddish instead of Hebrew. For so many reasons, I think the answer is clearly yes. And the same is true for other language decisions in other countries.

TEFLtastic blog- www.tefl.net/alexcase</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Apparently Michael Wex was right because Yiddish didn’t end up becoming Israel’s language.&#8221;</p>
<p>Could have been for other reasons though. </p>
<p>Another interesting question is whether the history of Israel would have been different if they had chosen Yiddish instead of Hebrew. For so many reasons, I think the answer is clearly yes. And the same is true for other language decisions in other countries.</p>
<p>TEFLtastic blog- <a href="http://www.tefl.net/alexcase" rel="nofollow">http://www.tefl.net/alexcase</a></p>
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		<title>By: Foreign Language Enthusiast</title>
		<link>http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/building-nations-with-the-cunning-use-of-foreign-languages/#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator>Foreign Language Enthusiast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 00:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/?p=134#comment-163</guid>
		<description>Great post. I think nations are defined by their cultures, history and people. All of this relates to languages. And flags help embody all of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. I think nations are defined by their cultures, history and people. All of this relates to languages. And flags help embody all of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/building-nations-with-the-cunning-use-of-foreign-languages/#comment-162</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 05:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/?p=134#comment-162</guid>
		<description>Alex: Thanks for pointing that out. I&#039;ve corrected the error. As for your question about pre-unified Spain, I don&#039;t think so. I do know that they felt united as Christians against the occupying Moors but I don&#039;t know how united they felt apart from that or how much of their unification was due to Castile and Leon&#039;s political maneuvering. Apparently Michael Wex was right because Yiddish didn&#039;t end up becoming Israel&#039;s language.

Travis: It&#039;s true, Hispanics will not &quot;take over&quot; the USA for a variety of reasons, one being that they usually integrate after the first generation. I&#039;m sure you had some other ideas though. Care to expound?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex: Thanks for pointing that out. I&#8217;ve corrected the error. As for your question about pre-unified Spain, I don&#8217;t think so. I do know that they felt united as Christians against the occupying Moors but I don&#8217;t know how united they felt apart from that or how much of their unification was due to Castile and Leon&#8217;s political maneuvering. Apparently Michael Wex was right because Yiddish didn&#8217;t end up becoming Israel&#8217;s language.</p>
<p>Travis: It&#8217;s true, Hispanics will not &#8220;take over&#8221; the USA for a variety of reasons, one being that they usually integrate after the first generation. I&#8217;m sure you had some other ideas though. Care to expound?</p>
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		<title>By: alexcase</title>
		<link>http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/building-nations-with-the-cunning-use-of-foreign-languages/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>alexcase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 03:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/?p=134#comment-160</guid>
		<description>&quot;The people in the east spoke Urdu&quot; - &quot;in the west&quot;, surely (I&#039;m sure this was just a slip as you got it right elsewhere)

Otherwise, a great read covering an impressive amount of the world. As your examples suggest, all kinds of things could happen in the US, languages do matter, and government policy can have a huge effect- in fact, it is the main difference between a dialect and a language

Some other random points:

Were the pre-unification Spanish states (self) defined as countries, or like the French did they have an idea that they belonged to a larger country that just hadn&#039;t come together yet? (genuine question)



In Born to Kvetch, the author suggests that Yiddish could never be the language of Israel because everything about it reflected the mentality of a defeated minority. I know nothing about this subject, but interesting theory. 

www.tefl.net/alexcase</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The people in the east spoke Urdu&#8221; &#8211; &#8220;in the west&#8221;, surely (I&#8217;m sure this was just a slip as you got it right elsewhere)</p>
<p>Otherwise, a great read covering an impressive amount of the world. As your examples suggest, all kinds of things could happen in the US, languages do matter, and government policy can have a huge effect- in fact, it is the main difference between a dialect and a language</p>
<p>Some other random points:</p>
<p>Were the pre-unification Spanish states (self) defined as countries, or like the French did they have an idea that they belonged to a larger country that just hadn&#8217;t come together yet? (genuine question)</p>
<p>In Born to Kvetch, the author suggests that Yiddish could never be the language of Israel because everything about it reflected the mentality of a defeated minority. I know nothing about this subject, but interesting theory. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.tefl.net/alexcase" rel="nofollow">http://www.tefl.net/alexcase</a></p>
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		<title>By: Travis</title>
		<link>http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/building-nations-with-the-cunning-use-of-foreign-languages/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 06:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thelinguistblogger.wordpress.com/?p=134#comment-159</guid>
		<description>Great post. Very engaging.

It&#039;s late and there is plenty I could (and will, later) say about the topic broached in the final paragraphs. But to answer the last question: Yes, it is silly for Americans to think that Hispanics are taking over their country.

Y punto.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. Very engaging.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s late and there is plenty I could (and will, later) say about the topic broached in the final paragraphs. But to answer the last question: Yes, it is silly for Americans to think that Hispanics are taking over their country.</p>
<p>Y punto.</p>
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